The king is dead, long live the king!

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garthrockett
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Re: The king is dead, long live the king!

Post by garthrockett » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:06 pm

All sounds a bit daunting if not depressing garthrockett but it does have an air of reality about it. So what is the plan to bring some sunshine to the scene - well the last fella thought we could set up a university / academy and in 5 years from its birth the profits would be rolling in - several million a year I seem to recall was it or perhaps just a million a year - whatever. Well employing 10 coaches + other staff to bring about this reward has to date failed although in the future there maybe profits but I would suggest not of the level the other fella expected.
Pershore,
I look at the tragic histories of Maidstone, Rushden & D, Darlington, Hereford , Telford United, etc etc etc. and think "what makes our club different to these bankrupt endevours?"
The answer is nothing....we are cut from the exact same cloth.
We have to think of something to break the cycle 95% of clubs are in, and find some way of sustaining the club over and above a few wealthy benefactors pumping various amounts of money into an otherwise moribund football club.
Thats why I agree in principle with the academy/education model, if only to attempt to take KHFC out of what will surely be a bankruptcy that we have thankfully just avoided at least three times so far due to injections of several individual's money. (Including your own; many thanks!)

Even the most optimistic fan must surely appreciate we ( along with a whole glut of clubs) cannot stand on the edge of this financial precipice for years on end without eventually falling off it.
Richard Lane is going to have to come up with a robust financial plan that avoids such future risk.
I await with bated breath............
"We're all amateurs at this and trying our hardest....." Richard Lane, Jan 2022

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Re: The king is dead, long live the king!

Post by stever1507 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:51 pm

The first decision, must be return to part time players. A small squad of local mid twenty, late twenty year olds, who would love to play for the "biggest part time club in the midlands"
Perhaps have a tie in with Solihull ? which are bigger than us Colin, unfortunately.
Get KHIST back into the club, they love the club, and have gone that extra mile, many times over past years.
Lots of other ideas, but its bedtime.

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Re: The king is dead, long live the king!

Post by ograzebrook » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:43 am

garthrockett wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:06 pm
All sounds a bit daunting if not depressing garthrockett but it does have an air of reality about it. So what is the plan to bring some sunshine to the scene - well the last fella thought we could set up a university / academy and in 5 years from its birth the profits would be rolling in - several million a year I seem to recall was it or perhaps just a million a year - whatever. Well employing 10 coaches + other staff to bring about this reward has to date failed although in the future there maybe profits but I would suggest not of the level the other fella expected.
Pershore,
I look at the tragic histories of Maidstone, Rushden & D, Darlington, Hereford , Telford United, etc etc etc. and think "what makes our club different to these bankrupt endevours?"
The answer is nothing....we are cut from the exact same cloth.
We have to think of something to break the cycle 95% of clubs are in, and find some way of sustaining the club over and above a few wealthy benefactors pumping various amounts of money into an otherwise moribund football club.
Thats why I agree in principle with the academy/education model, if only to attempt to take KHFC out of what will surely be a bankruptcy that we have thankfully just avoided at least three times so far due to injections of several individual's money. (Including your own; many thanks!)

Even the most optimistic fan must surely appreciate we ( along with a whole glut of clubs) cannot stand on the edge of this financial precipice for years on end without eventually falling off it.
Richard Lane is going to have to come up with a robust financial plan that avoids such future risk.
I await with bated breath............
Garth has articulated rather well the reason I don't really want to join in with the Colin bashing. The concept was quite radical and even though it has not produced the desired outcome, I remain hopeful that it's just a matter of time before it provides an income stream of some value. The whole state of lower league football is quite sad and any effort to promote a new model of sustainability is commendable.

I remember when the BBC were doing a bit on Sheffield United coming back to the Premier League and one of the club managers saying they had to spend X million pounds installing all of the VAR equipment. The whole thing has just got out of control. Even FC United of Manchester have had past issues with financial miss-management, despite being fan run and having a list of core principals designed to protect them from the more ugly commercial aspects of the modern game.

Regarding Colin though, he gave in to temptation in respect of the playing budget as he gambled on getting promotion. It seems to be a trap that so many fall into.

I'm very interested to see if anything changes in the coming weeks. Anything positive would be nice, the fans could use a lift.

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Re: The king is dead, long live the king!

Post by redandwhitemike » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:01 am

The first thing that has to happen is a statement of intent from RL to set down some objectives, and most of all offer an olive branch to the fans and KHIST. This can't come quick enough IMO.

I will be very disappointed if there is no mention of working 'together' for the good of the club.

Otherwise nothing changes.
The trouble with most of us is that we would rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism. ~Norman Vincent Peale

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Re: The king is dead, long live the king!

Post by Mayo » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:12 am

garthrockett wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:06 pm
All sounds a bit daunting if not depressing garthrockett but it does have an air of reality about it. So what is the plan to bring some sunshine to the scene - well the last fella thought we could set up a university / academy and in 5 years from its birth the profits would be rolling in - several million a year I seem to recall was it or perhaps just a million a year - whatever. Well employing 10 coaches + other staff to bring about this reward has to date failed although in the future there maybe profits but I would suggest not of the level the other fella expected.
Pershore,
I look at the tragic histories of Maidstone, Rushden & D, Darlington, Hereford , Telford United, etc etc etc. and think "what makes our club different to these bankrupt endevours?"
The answer is nothing....we are cut from the exact same cloth.
We have to think of something to break the cycle 95% of clubs are in, and find some way of sustaining the club over and above a few wealthy benefactors pumping various amounts of money into an otherwise moribund football club.
Thats why I agree in principle with the academy/education model, if only to attempt to take KHFC out of what will surely be a bankruptcy that we have thankfully just avoided at least three times so far due to injections of several individual's money. (Including your own; many thanks!)

Even the most optimistic fan must surely appreciate we ( along with a whole glut of clubs) cannot stand on the edge of this financial precipice for years on end without eventually falling off it.
Richard Lane is going to have to come up with a robust financial plan that avoids such future risk.
I await with bated breath............
Good post, totally agree
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Re: The king is dead, long live the king!

Post by Mystic » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:18 am

The plan should in my opinion be threefold

1 - most importantly get the fans back on board. Reach out to KHIST. Stop talking about academies and new stadiums let's get back to the KHFC we know and love and have supported most of our lives. Make the club feel an integral part of the town again.

2 - concerted effort to get the commercial side back on track. Won't pretend to be an expert as to how this can be done but is clearly essential to our financial well-being.

3 - if running a full time team isn't sustainable then plan to transition to a part time club. I know this isn't an over night task due to contracts etc but set the wheels in motion.

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Re: The king is dead, long live the king!

Post by Jasper » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:34 am

The plan in my opinion is very simple.
Let Mr Lane get on with it and we all get behind him. See it is simple!!

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Re: The king is dead, long live the king!

Post by redandwhitemike » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:51 am

Jasper wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:34 am
The plan in my opinion is very simple.
Let Mr Lane get on with it and we all get behind him. See it is simple!!
Not if he is only replicating what has gone before - as has been said before just rearranging the deck chairs didn't save the Titanic and it won't save KHFC .

IF the emphasis is still to neglect the first team squad in favour of directing funds in the direction of the academy and education - then nothing has changed.

That for me is the major concern.

Earlier comment with regard to part time players has to be the way to go, but if RL reiterates the mantra as espoused by CG (full time, end of) then I fear things will simply carry on as before and that won't placate the masses

Just letting RL carry on as before under his predecessor is not an option I could accept.
The trouble with most of us is that we would rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism. ~Norman Vincent Peale

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Re: The king is dead, long live the king!

Post by garthrockett » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:46 am

The plan should in my opinion be threefold

1 - most importantly get the fans back on board. Reach out to KHIST. Stop talking about academies and new stadiums let's get back to the KHFC we know and love and have supported most of our lives. Make the club feel an integral part of the town again.

2 - concerted effort to get the commercial side back on track. Won't pretend to be an expert as to how this can be done but is clearly essential to our financial well-being.

3 - if running a full time team isn't sustainable then plan to transition to a part time club. I know this isn't an over night task due to contracts etc but set the wheels in motion.
A sound enough plan......
Not just KHIST but getting the whole fan base on board is paramount. Compared to other clubs we have a puny hardcore fanbase and a limited extra potential should we be successful; so optimising what is there is key. At the moment only 1200 people care enough to turn up, in the Newton days that swelled to 2,500 ish but we should avoid his unrealistic talk at the time of becoming the county's side to follow....not gonna happen where we are located.

Commercial side ; the Harriers Arms and Aggborough suite are under utilised on non-match days. A shame as Ive been to a couple of birthday parties up there and upstairs its a great venue staffed by excellent personnel. As for corporate hospitality its a dead duck at Conference North level. Any self respecting company in Wyre Forest will offer their clients a corporate trip to Sixways or to New Road for the cricket, not to perch upstairs at Aggboro to watch us combat the mighty Farsley Celtic.....

As for full time/part time; are not all footballers part-time? :) Im not sure offering high end part-time contracts really gives us any advantage to where we are now reference player recruitment.....I remain to be convinced.
"We're all amateurs at this and trying our hardest....." Richard Lane, Jan 2022

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Re: The king is dead, long live the king!

Post by redandwhitemike » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:58 am

As for full time/part time; are not all footballers part-time? :) Im not sure offering high end part-time contracts really gives us any advantage to where we are now reference player recruitment.....I remain to be convinced.


Garth

Just how many clubs in NN are full time - simply isn't viable at this level unless there is a lot of money available.

The fact that so many smaller part time clubs come to Aggborough and turn us over proves the point - Glouster being the latest.

It's a nonsense - perpetuated by vague talk of necessity (academy window) by someone whose dream (vision) has dragged our club to the edge.
The trouble with most of us is that we would rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism. ~Norman Vincent Peale

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Re: The king is dead, long live the king!

Post by Sheffield Harrier » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:02 am

Zorro wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:09 pm
I think we need a concerted effort on the commercial side.

Whether it be food, Aggborough Suite hire, music, selling the advertising boards, boxes, sponsorship, comedy, sportman's dinners etc etc

It has all been severely lacking in recent months and through no fault of the Fans Club nor KHIST who have tried their best but have not had the club's support in my view
I agree all this needs improving at the moment BUT I think we need to be realistic how much this sort of stuff can bring in. And let's face it, its us who has to support it.

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Re: The king is dead, long live the king!

Post by garthrockett » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:35 pm

Just how many clubs in NN are full time - simply isn't viable at this level unless there is a lot of money available.

The fact that so many smaller part time clubs come to Aggborough and turn us over proves the point - Glouster being the latest.

It's a nonsense - perpetuated by vague talk of necessity (academy window) by someone whose dream (vision) has dragged our club to the edge
Indeedy Mike, but I would go further and say how many clubs in the pyramid outside the EFL push themselves to the brink with a dogged adherance to full-time contracts??
Theres an argument that English football perpetually struggles with too many of its clubs loaded with too many full time professionals.
Not that the FA or the Football league will do anything about it to make the semi-pro option any more attractive.
Macclesfield experimented a few years ago (2014 ish??) with a squad of non-contract players; players were free to play for the club an a pay-per-play basis, in return they could leave instantly if another club offered them a contract. No transfer fees either.
"We're all amateurs at this and trying our hardest....." Richard Lane, Jan 2022

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Re: The king is dead, long live the king!

Post by WBAKHFC123 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:32 pm

Mike, are you ever happy with things at KHFC?

RL isn’t even officially in power yet and you’re already setting the foundations for a bashing.

Give him a chance, give him 6months to at least lay his own foundations before criticising mate

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Re: The king is dead, long live the king!

Post by pershoreharrier » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:41 pm

garthrockett wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:06 pm
All sounds a bit daunting if not depressing garthrockett but it does have an air of reality about it. So what is the plan to bring some sunshine to the scene - well the last fella thought we could set up a university / academy and in 5 years from its birth the profits would be rolling in - several million a year I seem to recall was it or perhaps just a million a year - whatever. Well employing 10 coaches + other staff to bring about this reward has to date failed although in the future there maybe profits but I would suggest not of the level the other fella expected.
Pershore,
I look at the tragic histories of Maidstone, Rushden & D, Darlington, Hereford , Telford United, etc etc etc. and think "what makes our club different to these bankrupt endevours?"
The answer is nothing....we are cut from the exact same cloth.
We have to think of something to break the cycle 95% of clubs are in, and find some way of sustaining the club over and above a few wealthy benefactors pumping various amounts of money into an otherwise moribund football club.
Thats why I agree in principle with the academy/education model, if only to attempt to take KHFC out of what will surely be a bankruptcy that we have thankfully just avoided at least three times so far due to injections of several individual's money. (Including your own; many thanks!)

Even the most optimistic fan must surely appreciate we ( along with a whole glut of clubs) cannot stand on the edge of this financial precipice for years on end without eventually falling off it.
Richard Lane is going to have to come up with a robust financial plan that avoids such future risk.
I await with bated breath............
Garthrockett - Thanks for picking up on my post although you only quoted part of it.

I agree with much or what you have said and let's face it without RL stepping in many months ago we would already be treading the path of Maidstone, Rushden & D, Darlington, Hereford etc.

I would also accept that we need to have something to break the cycle BUT I do not believe the academy / education model is the route although it could be part of it. CG has had 4 years attempting to get it going and delivering a profit to make us sustainable. Those 4 years have seen losses in excess of £1.5million the first team budget slashed and the Club finish lower and lower in the NLN. Even now I do not see the revenue from the academy/ education model delivering the sustainability so sought after in even the near future.

The staffing costs (10 coaches + admin staff) and the like are significant fixed costs that cannot be avoided - the need according to CG that the Club remains full-time even in the NLN for the academy /education to work adds a further significant financial burden.

I am not totally against the academy / education (in fact I was on the Board when the academy was first set up in 2011) but we need to look at this over many more years than the five years CG wanted to deliver it in with a profit in excess of £1million a year.

Hence I think a more realistic approach (abandoned by CG) remains to have a couple of employees (part-time most likely) who know the local non league scene from top to bottom and can identify players such as Lolley, Matt, Johnson, Dunkley, Blissett whom we can bring into the Club where they can make significant contributions to the first team and move on for transfer fees that will out perform anything like the transfer fees mooted by CG that our academy could deliver.

I am with many others regarding the commercial side of the business which seems to have almost abandoned, the use of the Aggborough Suite and the like. The last 4 years in particular has seen a pretty much total disregard to making the most in terms of income from our assets which has only antagonised a collapsing stream of incomes.

CG looked for one income stream to fund everything - all other sources were dismissed as being worth only pennies. I would suggest that all profitable income streams need to be nurtured and developed - every penny counts they really do.
Last edited by pershoreharrier on Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The king is dead, long live the king!

Post by redandwhitemike » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:45 pm

WBAKHFC123 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:32 pm
Mike, are you ever happy with things at KHFC?

RL isn’t even officially in power yet and you’re already setting the foundations for a bashing.

Give him a chance, give him 6months to at least lay his own foundations before criticising mate
But he is 'officially' in power - he is registered with Companies House as being the major shareholder of the club , I'm surprised there has been no announcement of his taking over - anyway who's criticising?

I was just outlining (like others) what I hope he will do and that the wheels are set in motion for a 'change' from the old regime.
The trouble with most of us is that we would rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism. ~Norman Vincent Peale

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