Euro 2016

All discussion about any England tournaments in here please. World Cups, Euro's etc

Moderator: Phil

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How will we do in the Euro's?

Poll ended at Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:53 am

Go out 1st rd
4
20%
Progress further
1
5%
Into the quarter finals
9
45%
Or the semi finals
4
20%
Win the thing?
2
10%
 
Total votes: 20

brumkidd
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Re: Euro 2016

Post by brumkidd » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:25 pm

If the likes of Iceland, Northern Ireland, Wales, The Republic of Ireland, Slovakia and Hungary (all relatively small footballing nations) can put a team/squad together that will run through brick walls for their country even if it is of limited ability, then perhaps England should do the same.

Let's not pick our so-called star players and concentrate on limited ability Championship and lower players who will do an Iceland because they would be honoured to put on the shirt and not be inconvenienced by it.

It ought to be possible to pick a half decent squad from outside the Premier League that can be moulded into an effective unit. They might even reach a quarter final and we can all look on them with pride.
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Re: Euro 2016

Post by Phil » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:02 pm

Jesus wept Mike.

The bloke has spent the last three weeks in France watching the actual team actually play at first hand and still you don't accept what he says.

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Re: Euro 2016

Post by redandwhitemike » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:07 pm

Phil wrote:Jesus wept Mike.

The bloke has spent the last three weeks in France watching the actual team actually play at first hand and still you don't accept what he says.

Is his opinion any more valid just because he was at the games - after all sometimes seeing games on TV gives the observer a better overall view.

AND it is just ONE person's OPINION FFS
The trouble with most of us is that we would rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism. ~Norman Vincent Peale

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Re: Euro 2016

Post by redandwhitemike » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:21 pm

Cal's Spongebag wrote:Interesting and informed viewpoint, Harry.

Mike, if you genuinely don't know, the bigger picture includes...


Premier League clubs being owned by foreigners, managed by foreigners and the teams populated by foreigners.
So how much are they in favour of helping our national team?
Club v country debate now almost dead in the water...Club football far more important.
Club football more susceptible to the foibles of capitalism than the international game. Money talks.
The number of people who support the e.g. Arsenal players in the Euros rather than England.
Players turning down the opportunity (honour?) to play for Under 18s, under 21s
Players being feted and rich beyond most peoples dreams by the age of 18, and associated arrogance.
Please read the small print in the 'home grown' players legislation....the EPL treating the country as mugs.
They say, on the one hand that the policy is to improve the quality of players available to the English team, yet they don't say 'home grown' need to be English?
Why do the players underperform so badly under various managers at various tournaments?Only 1/3 of players starting EPL matches are English - and the vast majority of those will be in the worst teams.
Top teams buying up all young talent, then loaning it out to FL teams.
School age kids being pressurised into winning by coaches, parents rather than having time to learn skills.
Kids not out playing in the streets or in fields - compared with kids in warmer climates.
Have we got a coaching system and infrastructure, the number of qualified coaches as comparable nations.
Maybe an arrogance in this country that 'well, we invented the game didn't we'?
Lack of steady progression through national ranks...juniors to senior team.
Even England manager under constant personal scrutiny and ends up pilloried by the tabloids. Who would want the job?
For many the only appeal is a 'final pay day' - where has any ex-England manager had a lot of success subsequently?
A glance at the latest betting shows Southgate - and the rest, who you can divide into either 'unappealing' or 'unobtainable'.
Sky TV. If its not on Sky it doesn't get the power of their marketing push. Sky don't have WC or Euros.


An England manager doesn't get appointed if he is rubbish. However, how many managers have had little success with England - almost all of them. Mega salaries attracted Eriksson and Capello who were the most successful managers in Europe. Shouldn't you start thinking , well maybe it isn't just about who the next manager is???

If you want to carry on sticking pins in your Hodgson effigy, carry on.

Little there that I actually disagree with to be fair - BUT the issue with the Premier League effect, would that not apply equally or maybe more so to all the foreigners who are rich beyond there dreams, especially third world players - yet they seem to have a commitment/pride to their national team?

I have no doubt that the English players that represented their country under Hodgson are as patriotic as any of the other players who play for Wales, Spain of France etc who play in the Premier League.

Don't think you can just broad brush the failure at the players feet.
The trouble with most of us is that we would rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism. ~Norman Vincent Peale

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Re: Euro 2016

Post by garthrockett » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:27 pm

Premier League clubs being owned by foreigners, managed by foreigners and the teams populated by foreigners.
So how much are they in favour of helping our national team?
Club v country debate now almost dead in the water...Club football far more important.
Club football more susceptible to the foibles of capitalism than the international game. Money talks.
The number of people who support the e.g. Arsenal players in the Euros rather than England.
Players turning down the opportunity (honour?) to play for Under 18s, under 21s
Players being feted and rich beyond most peoples dreams by the age of 18, and associated arrogance.
Please read the small print in the 'home grown' players legislation....the EPL treating the country as mugs.
They say, on the one hand that the policy is to improve the quality of players available to the English team, yet they don't say 'home grown' need to be English?
Why do the players underperform so badly under various managers at various tournaments?Only 1/3 of players starting EPL matches are English - and the vast majority of those will be in the worst teams.
Top teams buying up all young talent, then loaning it out to FL teams.
School age kids being pressurised into winning by coaches, parents rather than having time to learn skills.
Kids not out playing in the streets or in fields - compared with kids in warmer climates.
Have we got a coaching system and infrastructure, the number of qualified coaches as comparable nations.
Maybe an arrogance in this country that 'well, we invented the game didn't we'?
Lack of steady progression through national ranks...juniors to senior team.
Even England manager under constant personal scrutiny and ends up pilloried by the tabloids. Who would want the job?
For many the only appeal is a 'final pay day' - where has any ex-England manager had a lot of success subsequently?
A glance at the latest betting shows Southgate - and the rest, who you can divide into either 'unappealing' or 'unobtainable'.
Sky TV. If its not on Sky it doesn't get the power of their marketing push. Sky don't have WC or Euros.
well, that's opened the discussion up!! :D
Some valid points there too- though playing devil's advocate ( as I often do) :

as foreign imports arrived in droves in the PL (and lets be honest, even down to our level!) we were told our players technique would improve exponentially playing against the best in the world.....that hasn't happened (has it?)

if we are really honest don't we all want the very best that money can buy for our teams (KHFC included)?
if that means a good foreign import got at a fraction of the cost of a English lad then so be it.....there's no slack given to Managers 'buying British' when 5 defeats on the bounce could see them sacked in any case.

Though the PL is the main money generator make no mistake that FA are aware the international game can also generate huge amounts of cash directly and indirectly. I'm not sure if international 'exclusivity' to satellite or cable stations would make any difference.

Agreed we see generations of England players come through the various representative levels together as a team until full senior level, when it suddenly all becomes selection on individual merit. Why?

Maybe the next Manager's first job should be to line up the squad and teach them to sing the national anthem?
It wouldn't hurt.....
"We're all amateurs at this and trying our hardest....." Richard Lane, Jan 2022

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Re: Euro 2016

Post by Medieval » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:54 pm

Problem solved, you`ve hit the nail on the head, we need an English national anthem! :;

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Re: Euro 2016

Post by garthrockett » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:22 pm

that's a point, rather than 'God save the Queen', something more inspirational perchance?? :lol:
"We're all amateurs at this and trying our hardest....." Richard Lane, Jan 2022

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Re: Euro 2016

Post by Medieval » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:31 pm

Exactly, something about the country, not a person. :)

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Re: Euro 2016

Post by pricey5 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:13 pm

Harry Err wrote:I've just returned home after nearly 3 weeks in France. I was at the Iceland game and also the other England games plus 4 neutral games.

I have seen 11 of the teams play live and have met up with fans from a few more than that so have had a pretty good overview of what was going on out there.

The big difference between England and virtually everyone else is passion. For most other countries playing for the national side is still the peak for players and supporters. It really isn't the case with England. As the years go by I get ever more convinced that for quite a significant proportion of England players selection is almost an inconvenience. The premier league dominates everything and that is where they make their money. Being selected for England simply means less time off for little reward. The days of needing to prove yourself at International level to warrant a big domestic contract are long gone.

Don't get me wrong though I had a fantastic holiday but that was due far more to what happened off the pitch than on it. England away these days is just a good excuse to meet up with mates who you might not see that often as they don't live locally. It is increasingly becoming a social rather that football event. It's a shame it is not both!

I don't blame Hodgson I blame the players. In the ground in Nice on Monday it is fair to say that for the last half an hour or so a huge proportion of the England support turned on the players. Some might say that is unacceptable but I don't subscribe to that. I have spent many £10,000's following England over the years as have many others who were there. I'm not so naive that I think we will win tournaments year after year however a modicum of success once in a while wouldn't go amiss.

We too often under perform against teams whose sum is greater than their parts whereas we are the exact opposite. This leads to a massive disconnect between fans and players. Like many others who travel to England away I do so as an England team supporter. Do I support the individual players as well? I don't think I do. Like many others the players are seen as temporary and they regularly let down the team. This is so different to how other countries supporters view their own players.

There is also another factor at play which doesn't affect the other countries quite as much as ours and that is the fact that the vast majority of England away support do not follow teams back in England that any of the players represent. This adds to the disconnect.

I really don't think there is a straightforward solution. The premier league has ruined everything and I can't see them disbanding that any time soon!

Oh well onwards to Russia 2018. No doubt that'll be a barrel of laughs on and off the pitch!
Thanks for the write-up, I agree with what you say. Your support and the thousands of other over in France deserved so much more.

It wont ever change whilst the premier league sucks the life out of the English game.

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Re: Euro 2016

Post by Phil » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:57 pm

And that was how England should have played.

Coleman for England manager?

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Re: Euro 2016

Post by jim mankey » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:04 pm

Phil wrote:And that was how England should have played.

Coleman for England manager?


Just had the same thought Phil

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Re: Euro 2016

Post by Harry Err » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:24 pm

Backs up what I said earlier.

The difference in passion and pride shown by the Welsh compared to the complete indifference shown by most of the England players is massive.

I wish I had a team of players like that to follow round the world rather than the hyped up underachieving nonsense I usually have to put up with.

I'd like to think that the England players were watching that and feeling a little bit embarrassed that they couldn't replicate the effort and commitment shown by the Welsh however I suspect that most of them are probably in Dubai or somewhere similar thankful of an extra weeks holiday before the new Premiership season starts.

Christ they are hard to like. Believe me I've tried often enough!!

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Re: Euro 2016

Post by BIGED63 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:50 am

Just heard the Welsh FA have overturned Ramseys 2nd yellow of the tournament... :rolllaugh: :wall:
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Re: Euro 2016

Post by sprials » Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:57 am

brumkidd wrote:If the likes of Iceland, Northern Ireland, Wales, The Republic of Ireland, Slovakia and Hungary (all relatively small footballing nations) can put a team/squad together that will run through brick walls for their country even if it is of limited ability, then perhaps England should do the same.

Let's not pick our so-called star players and concentrate on limited ability Championship and lower players who will do an Iceland because they would be honoured to put on the shirt and not be inconvenienced by it.

It ought to be possible to pick a half decent squad from outside the Premier League that can be moulded into an effective unit. They might even reach a quarter final and we can all look on them with pride.





well said that man
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Re: Euro 2016

Post by Ossie » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:35 am

Who were the last three Englishmen to score in a Euro quarter final?









Sam Vokes
Hal Robson-Kanu
Ashley Williams

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