3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

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pershoreharrier
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Re: 3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

Post by pershoreharrier » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:56 am

Phil wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:34 pm
They're a bit inconsistent and near the bottom of the table so we have as good a chance as them. Almost certainly to be on the TV.

Johnny Mullins former club. I'd expect him to be guest of honour on the day
excellent idea to have Johnny Mullins as guest of honour for the day - I can even lend him one of his former Harriers shirts so he could be properly dressed.

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Re: 3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

Post by Grumpy old man » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:59 am

Yes, my money would be on Yeovil v Bournemouth for TV as arguably a local derby.

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Re: 3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

Post by Jasper » Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:48 pm

I'd be surprised if television companies couldn't include the lowest club left in the competition against a Championship club for live television coverage. That has all the fairytale ingredients for a third round tie in the FA Cup admittedly against a non Premiership team. You can see Premiership v Premiership games any day of the week. Let's see if these companies keep to their usual rhetoric narrative and put a classical third round tie on live television.

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Re: 3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

Post by Grenoble Harrier » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:48 pm

Great to get a home tie. It gives us a bit more chance of getting a result.
And if the TV companies don't cover us in this round, then they'll follow us in the 4th!
:comeonharriers2:

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Re: 3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

Post by Jasper » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:12 pm

From the various responses of Reading fans they will easily sell their ticket allocation. Spoken to a Reading season ticket holder this morning.

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Re: 3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

Post by tonythescout » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:20 pm

Not the first choice draw but its one we can certainly cause them a few problems in providing we don't freeze on the day like we did with Coventry back in 2009. Not sure if it will be in telly, Chesterfield, Swindon, Villa Man U, Yeovil will all be ahead in the list. Rather have a Saturday game anyway.
If Reading wont sell, give them a 1000 and open half of the south stand to home fans like we did with Rushden game back in 2000. Im sure we did the same with Stockport game in 2013?

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Re: 3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

Post by Flashheart » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:33 pm

Lots of positive comments about the draw. My view is a bit more disparaging unfortunately, but I want to put a different slant on the issue by talking more about the 3rd round draw in general.

Reading at home isn’t a bad draw. But we’ve been paired against a team we have no history or relationship with, no local connection with, and with the exception of a few rogue cases, no real banter with as most of our friends/family support big clubs, or teams closer to home. It’s just an ordinary, middle-of-the-road tie, which is the case with the vast majority of ties produced.

It seems to be the story every season. We all greatly anticipate the ‘excitement’ and the ‘glamour’ of the supposedly most thrilling draw in world football, but in reality you only get two or three remotely decent ties out of 32, and this campaign is no different.

There are quite a few David and Goliath ties, but even most of these are, shall we say, ‘in the wrong places’. Hardly any of these match-ups are ever local derbies. Even the much lauded Marine v Tottenham tie last season was a geographical mismatch, and Spurs once again have a north-west minnow in the third round. Why not give a London/South East underdog that chance to play Spurs, for example?

A less obvious tie I want to pick out is Luton v Harrogate, reaching the third round for the first time. A quick glance at the Championship table tells me the two clubs directly above them, both a single point better off, are Sheff Utd and Huddersfield, both of which would have been a lucrative derby match for Harrogate, which is no more or less difficult than going to Luton. Also, if you were to reinstate Reading’s points, the team directly above them would be Birmingham. It works the other way as well, and I’m sure Reading’s fans would have preferred a closer trip to Boreham Wood for their ‘plum tie’ than come here.

Another problem with the third round is about a quarter of the ties are always clogged up with dull, monotonous all-Premier or all-Championsip ties, which kill the excitement of the round for me. Villa have met Man Utd 5 times in the last 20 seasons in the 3rd round and play each other often enough anyway. The third round should be about these clubs playing different teams and the big boys can knock each other out later on, I feel.

I just believe we should be moving away from a completely open and random draw which conjures up too many higgledly-piggledly fixtures, and implement a system which takes into account geography, common sense and how often the teams play each other rather than solely relying on ‘luck of the draw’.

It’ll be interesting to get people’s views on this, as I think we should be moving with the times now. We have the technology to cultivate a more riveting 3rd round draw, and we should we using it. If I’ve gone off the topic slightly, please feel free to move this topic to another thread.

Sorry for rambling on anyway. I’m sure when the day comes, I’ll enjoy the occasion against Reading. But I can’t help asking the question, could more be done in future to give teams a more favourable tie?

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Re: 3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

Post by tonythescout » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:46 pm

Flashheart wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:33 pm
Lots of positive comments about the draw. My view is a bit more disparaging unfortunately, but I want to put a different slant on the issue by talking more about the 3rd round draw in general.

Reading at home isn’t a bad draw. But we’ve been paired against a team we have no history or relationship with, no local connection with, and with the exception of a few rogue cases, no real banter with as most of our friends/family support big clubs, or teams closer to home. It’s just an ordinary, middle-of-the-road tie, which is the case with the vast majority of ties produced.

It seems to be the story every season. We all greatly anticipate the ‘excitement’ and the ‘glamour’ of the supposedly most thrilling draw in world football, but in reality you only get two or three remotely decent ties out of 32, and this campaign is no different.

There are quite a few David and Goliath ties, but even most of these are, shall we say, ‘in the wrong places’. Hardly any of these match-ups are ever local derbies. Even the much lauded Marine v Tottenham tie last season was a geographical mismatch, and Spurs once again have a north-west minnow in the third round. Why not give a London/South East underdog that chance to play Spurs, for example?

A less obvious tie I want to pick out is Luton v Harrogate, reaching the third round for the first time. A quick glance at the Championship table tells me the two clubs directly above them, both a single point better off, are Sheff Utd and Huddersfield, both of which would have been a lucrative derby match for Harrogate, which is no more or less difficult than going to Luton. Also, if you were to reinstate Reading’s points, the team directly above them would be Birmingham. It works the other way as well, and I’m sure Reading’s fans would have preferred a closer trip to Boreham Wood for their ‘plum tie’ than come here.

Another problem with the third round is about a quarter of the ties are always clogged up with dull, monotonous all-Premier or all-Championsip ties, which kill the excitement of the round for me. Villa have met Man Utd 5 times in the last 20 seasons in the 3rd round and play each other often enough anyway. The third round should be about these clubs playing different teams and the big boys can knock each other out later on, I feel.

I just believe we should be moving away from a completely open and random draw which conjures up too many higgledly-piggledly fixtures, and implement a system which takes into account geography, common sense and how often the teams play each other rather than solely relying on ‘luck of the draw’.

It’ll be interesting to get people’s views on this, as I think we should be moving with the times now. We have the technology to cultivate a more riveting 3rd round draw, and we should we using it. If I’ve gone off the topic slightly, please feel free to move this topic to another thread.

Sorry for rambling on anyway. I’m sure when the day comes, I’ll enjoy the occasion against Reading. But I can’t help asking the question, could more be done in future to give teams a more favourable tie?
its luck of the drawer. As for geographical terms i imagine you wouldnt moan if we drew liverpool away and why would somone, for example torquay not be given the chance to draw it.
reading yes no relationship with etc but same applies to man city, no one would have moaned if we had that draw.
ps love the name, love a bit of blackadder me.

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Re: 3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

Post by ograzebrook » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:58 pm

Flashheart wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:33 pm
Lots of positive comments about the draw. My view is a bit more disparaging unfortunately, but I want to put a different slant on the issue by talking more about the 3rd round draw in general.

Reading at home isn’t a bad draw. But we’ve been paired against a team we have no history or relationship with, no local connection with, and with the exception of a few rogue cases, no real banter with as most of our friends/family support big clubs, or teams closer to home. It’s just an ordinary, middle-of-the-road tie, which is the case with the vast majority of ties produced.

It seems to be the story every season. We all greatly anticipate the ‘excitement’ and the ‘glamour’ of the supposedly most thrilling draw in world football, but in reality you only get two or three remotely decent ties out of 32, and this campaign is no different.

There are quite a few David and Goliath ties, but even most of these are, shall we say, ‘in the wrong places’. Hardly any of these match-ups are ever local derbies. Even the much lauded Marine v Tottenham tie last season was a geographical mismatch, and Spurs once again have a north-west minnow in the third round. Why not give a London/South East underdog that chance to play Spurs, for example?

A less obvious tie I want to pick out is Luton v Harrogate, reaching the third round for the first time. A quick glance at the Championship table tells me the two clubs directly above them, both a single point better off, are Sheff Utd and Huddersfield, both of which would have been a lucrative derby match for Harrogate, which is no more or less difficult than going to Luton. Also, if you were to reinstate Reading’s points, the team directly above them would be Birmingham. It works the other way as well, and I’m sure Reading’s fans would have preferred a closer trip to Boreham Wood for their ‘plum tie’ than come here.

Another problem with the third round is about a quarter of the ties are always clogged up with dull, monotonous all-Premier or all-Championsip ties, which kill the excitement of the round for me. Villa have met Man Utd 5 times in the last 20 seasons in the 3rd round and play each other often enough anyway. The third round should be about these clubs playing different teams and the big boys can knock each other out later on, I feel.

I just believe we should be moving away from a completely open and random draw which conjures up too many higgledly-piggledly fixtures, and implement a system which takes into account geography, common sense and how often the teams play each other rather than solely relying on ‘luck of the draw’.

It’ll be interesting to get people’s views on this, as I think we should be moving with the times now. We have the technology to cultivate a more riveting 3rd round draw, and we should we using it. If I’ve gone off the topic slightly, please feel free to move this topic to another thread.

Sorry for rambling on anyway. I’m sure when the day comes, I’ll enjoy the occasion against Reading. But I can’t help asking the question, could more be done in future to give teams a more favourable tie?
So what you're saying is that the world isn't perfect ...

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Re: 3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

Post by Flashheart » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:43 pm

ograzebrook wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:58 pm
Flashheart wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:33 pm
Lots of positive comments about the draw. My view is a bit more disparaging unfortunately, but I want to put a different slant on the issue by talking more about the 3rd round draw in general.

Reading at home isn’t a bad draw. But we’ve been paired against a team we have no history or relationship with, no local connection with, and with the exception of a few rogue cases, no real banter with as most of our friends/family support big clubs, or teams closer to home. It’s just an ordinary, middle-of-the-road tie, which is the case with the vast majority of ties produced.

It seems to be the story every season. We all greatly anticipate the ‘excitement’ and the ‘glamour’ of the supposedly most thrilling draw in world football, but in reality you only get two or three remotely decent ties out of 32, and this campaign is no different.

There are quite a few David and Goliath ties, but even most of these are, shall we say, ‘in the wrong places’. Hardly any of these match-ups are ever local derbies. Even the much lauded Marine v Tottenham tie last season was a geographical mismatch, and Spurs once again have a north-west minnow in the third round. Why not give a London/South East underdog that chance to play Spurs, for example?

A less obvious tie I want to pick out is Luton v Harrogate, reaching the third round for the first time. A quick glance at the Championship table tells me the two clubs directly above them, both a single point better off, are Sheff Utd and Huddersfield, both of which would have been a lucrative derby match for Harrogate, which is no more or less difficult than going to Luton. Also, if you were to reinstate Reading’s points, the team directly above them would be Birmingham. It works the other way as well, and I’m sure Reading’s fans would have preferred a closer trip to Boreham Wood for their ‘plum tie’ than come here.

Another problem with the third round is about a quarter of the ties are always clogged up with dull, monotonous all-Premier or all-Championsip ties, which kill the excitement of the round for me. Villa have met Man Utd 5 times in the last 20 seasons in the 3rd round and play each other often enough anyway. The third round should be about these clubs playing different teams and the big boys can knock each other out later on, I feel.

I just believe we should be moving away from a completely open and random draw which conjures up too many higgledly-piggledly fixtures, and implement a system which takes into account geography, common sense and how often the teams play each other rather than solely relying on ‘luck of the draw’.

It’ll be interesting to get people’s views on this, as I think we should be moving with the times now. We have the technology to cultivate a more riveting 3rd round draw, and we should we using it. If I’ve gone off the topic slightly, please feel free to move this topic to another thread.

Sorry for rambling on anyway. I’m sure when the day comes, I’ll enjoy the occasion against Reading. But I can’t help asking the question, could more be done in future to give teams a more favourable tie?
So what you're saying is that the world isn't perfect ...
What do you suggest as an alternative, then? The open draw has constantly churned up uninspiring or rubbish draws. If the draw was more regionalised for example, more local derbies=a more all-round exciting draw=maximised and increased interest in the competition. There is no silver bullet, and of course you are never going to please everyone. It’s just my opinion the open draw is no longer effective.

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Re: 3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

Post by WBAKHFC123 » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:23 pm

A regional draw wouldn’t work, no fun drawing the same/similar teams every year.

Eventually Kiddy would become bored of playing Villa/Albion/Wolves every other year. It becomes a diluted market.

Yes we would have loved a huge Prem side at home, but the Reading game WILL go down in history as one of the biggest games on record the club has had, it could have been much much worse.

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Re: 3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

Post by Flashheart » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:48 pm

WBAKHFC123 wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:23 pm
A regional draw wouldn’t work, no fun drawing the same/similar teams every year.

Eventually Kiddy would become bored of playing Villa/Albion/Wolves every other year. It becomes a diluted market.

Yes we would have loved a huge Prem side at home, but the Reading game WILL go down in history as one of the biggest games on record the club has had, it could have been much much worse.
Yeah, I kinda agree. We wouldn’t want them every single time, but I also want more than a 1/16 chance of drawing one of the big four in the third round stage. I think drawing one of these teams once in a generation would be fair, and it’s been 18 years now since we played Wolves. I just don’t want Peterborough and Reading in successive third round draws to be the norm, and think it’s time underdogs, by and large, get a more favourable draw in the main, as it rewards them for their achievements and boosts the image of the FA Cup. There is no easy solution, however.

I always thought we would have to beat a fellow Midlands club to eclipse Birmingham in 94, but maybe, just maybe if we can pull off an almighty shock against Reading as a sixth tier club, that would be the greatest game in Harriers’ history. I’d like to think so, as Peterborough seems to be quickly forgotten once a Birmingham anniversary is mentioned

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Re: 3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

Post by spitalfields » Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:09 am

Flashheart wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:48 pm
I always thought we would have to beat a fellow Midlands club to eclipse Birmingham in 94, but maybe, just maybe if we can pull off an almighty shock against Reading as a sixth tier club, that would be the greatest game in Harriers’ history. I’d like to think so, as Peterborough seems to be quickly forgotten once a Birmingham anniversary is mentioned
Reading will be a huge game in the club's history. Eclipsing Birmingham 94 is highly unlikely. That was a once in a generation day, full Roy of the Rovers stuff. Not just the win, but the whole narrative- a neighboring club, rejected players, going behind early on, missed penalty, and two goals of the highest quality, the second so stunning that the quality of the first is generally forgotten. You won't get that again simply by playing another local side. A momentous day because days like that are so rare- and any attempt to engineer something similar is unlikely to succeed.

As for engineering the draw, I can understand where you're coming from. I have often wondered about seeding the Prem teams so they can't play each until R5, so you don't get attention on the 'all Prem' ties that no fan wants, but seem to get the neutral's attention. But I can't think of any way this could be done without unintended consequences. And given the diversity of views on what a 'good' draw would be, it wouldn't even work if you gave any non-league teams who got to R3 the pick of who they played. The system is literally a lottery- most of the time you end up disappointed, but when it falls in your favour, it's exhilarating!

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Re: 3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

Post by HarrierN2 » Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:59 am

tonythescout wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:20 pm
Not the first choice draw but its one we can certainly cause them a few problems in providing we don't freeze on the day like we did with Coventry back in 2009. Not sure if it will be in telly, Chesterfield, Swindon, Villa Man U, Yeovil will all be ahead in the list. Rather have a Saturday game anyway.
If Reading wont sell, give them a 1000 and open half of the south stand to home fans like we did with Rushden game back in 2000. Im sure we did the same with Stockport game in 2013?
We were set up too defensively against Sunderland and should have had a pop at them. They were there for the taking.

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Re: 3rd round. Who do we want? We get Reading

Post by harry211 » Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:14 am

WBAKHFC123 wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:23 pm
A regional draw wouldn’t work, no fun drawing the same/similar teams every year.

Eventually Kiddy would become bored of playing Villa/Albion/Wolves every other year. It becomes a diluted market.

Yes we would have loved a huge Prem side at home, but the Reading game WILL go down in history as one of the biggest games on record the club has had, it could have been much much worse.
It's certainly an interesting idea, think Jimmy Hill would approve of the attempt, but suspect you will end up with the same sides playing each other every year as above. In the North West, say Stockport, Rochdale, Oldham, Wrexham, Chester don't get through. You'll likely have United/Liverpool/Everton/City/Wigan/Bolton/Stoke/Crewe playing each other every year. In the Midlands, Blues/Villa/Cov/WBA/Wolves against each other if others don't get through. It would get repetitive quickly.

The only way to have a guarantee of some variation and small vs big, is to have it seeded and do it in the way they do the World Cup/Euros draws - very convoluted and drawn out. For me the current system, to paraphrase Churchill, is the worst way of doing it, until you consider the alternatives.
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